'VOX' Belly interview (March 95)





The front cover

The King is dead; long live King, the schizophrenic and introspective second album from Belly... Tanya Donelly is all shook up


B
elly laugh. It's not that singer Tanya Donelly has never been asked to dress up for a photo shoot before, but in the past it has been for tasteful Gap adverts or glamour shoots. Today, though, she's decked out like a tacky Elvis impersonator, Las Vegas Burger King period. The diamond-studded jumpsuit looks like it was fitted for Leigh Bowery and the silver stacks are about eight sizes too big, but the singer offers her best Elvis lip curl before breaking out into that award-winning grin.

With 800,000 copies of their debut album Star sold, it wouldn't be surprising if Tanya had developed an ego so big that it demanded a 20 per cent cut of all royalties. Not so. She may have a reputation for keeping it all in, but today she reveals a sense of humour that shows up her transatlantic adversaries for the contrived, pole-up the-arse personalities they are. Hey Limeys, chill out.

It's not that Belly's new album, King, is even a tribute. The title track is actually dedicated to a friend's lighting-technician brother, who was hired by some prince or other to brighten up his birthday party with his lights. Money being no object, he lit up the ocean bed. Tanya being Tanya, she equated the image of a dark and dangerous ocean being changed into something bright and beautiful with a kind of love.

"As soon as you're in love you're in incredible danger. You're floating on top of this ocean with things underneath that can kill you; how wonderful and terrifying that is! In the middle of this fear, you have these lights, and this wonderful naked person you can go home to.

Uh-huh. So why 'King'?

"He was called Roi and I wanted to call it that, but The Breeders [Donelly's last band] have a song called 'Roi'. But 'Roi' means 'King'."

Still, she once wore a pair of shades that said "I Love Elvis"....

"We did that in Nashville, and I was just being silly. They have sunglasses in Nashville that say 'I love Travis Tritt' and 'I love this, that and the other thing', but I wanted something slightly cool."

Naturally, The King Of Rock'N'Roll was an early influence.

"When I was a little kid I used to listen to Elvis. His voice is just beautiful, and there is something really cool about him. I like his very, very early years and his very, very late years. Even though the late years are pathetic, there's something sort of sad and sweet about him. But when I started to get really seriously into music, he definitely wasn't one of my inspirations."

Sadly, Tanya can't remember if she was holding a packet of weenies or a box of Golden Grahams when she heard that Elvis had gone to the great burger bar in the sky.

"I remember being in a supermarket in Newport [Rhode Island] when I found out, but I can't really remember much... It was a heart attack, that was the official line. But everybody already knew about his problems."

You've just missed a load of Elvis's!

Even as an eleven year old, Tanya was clued up on rock'n'roll's drug, drink and Scooby snack excesses. Her hippy parents even dragged her from coast to coast on a fantastic voyage of discovery.

"Their mythical road-trip! It was really good fun, actually, for the most part. I remember little snatches. I remember lilies of the valley in Arizona. I also had a lot of weird thoughts; I imagined I saw animals that couldn't have been there. At night we'd sleep outside sometimes, and my brother and I would sit there and make things up. There's a tiger outside the tent! There are gorillas standing on the fire escape. There are giraffes out in the hallway."

No amount of hallucinating, however, could quite prepare her for her experiences with New Order at the tailend of the '80s, when she toured with Throwing Muses.

"There was a lot of drugs, and we got a little bit into it as well... just because it was our first sight of it. By the end of that tour, my fingernails and my hair were pretty much falling off -- and out!"

The tour that nearly broke New Order is infamous, and Belly were up all night, matching them line for line. "Fortunately, it was a very brief tour," says Donelly. "It's never really gotten to that extreme ever again."

Belly may have resisted the self-destructive urges, but Donelly is well aware of how Kurt Cobain's death is only the tip of a very large iceberg.

"Heroin is pretty much the new drug of choice, because it's semi-Utopian, I think," she says cryptically. "It's just different... every decade has its tastes."

Nevertheless, it seems that whatever the drug of choice, smack is the level to which each rock'n'roll generation inevitably descends. Hindsight fingers Seattle's Grungers as obvious victims but until Evan Dando opened his stash, the collegiate Boston scene seemed too whimsical and kooky to be involved in heroin, a drug that remains the taboo narcotic.

Today, the subject is a little too close for comfort. Kelley Deal, who replaced Tanya after her brief dalliance with The Breeders in 1992, is currently awaiting trial in Ohio on heroin-related charges. Understandably, Tanya is reluctant to say anything other than that heroin was not on the rider when she played in the band. Nevertheless, it's a subject that refuses to lie. Later, a seemingly innocuous conversation among the rest of the band about Elastica's talent soon revives the subject, when someone recounts Damon Albarn's allegations that Brett Anderson took heroin.

"Why, is that a bad thing?" guitarist Tom Gorman asks, only half-joking.

"Taking heroin is the hip thing in the States," mumbles his brother Chris, drummer, photographer and supplier of much of Belly's sleeve-art.

"Everybody's dying though," mutters bassist Gail Greenwood.

"Well, they do it, then they lie -- that's the 'hip' part," says Tanya, meaning "hip" as in hip-ocritical. No one mentions Kelley Deal. Only the rustle of Gail's box of Raisin Splitz disturbs the unexpected air of gloom.


Death, despondency, despair -- these used to be prime lyrical fodder for Tanya Donelly. After nine years and five albums playing lead guitar -- but second fiddle -- to her step-sister Kristin Hersh of Throwing Muses, she should have found herself newly liberated in 1991. But the songs she wrote for Star, Belly's debut album, threw up a thicket of bleak and black images.

"I'm in love with parable and mythology and the use of a story as a message," she says. "That's the most effective way to use language -- to affect somebody on a subconscious, visceral level. That's the most long-lasting."

So on Star, there were dead and decaying dogs strapped to the backs of adulterous women; a baby lying dead in a cellar; a finger jammed in an eye; a kid slamming her bike down stairs and knocking out her teeth. There was serious moonlight, and talk of chewing off a foot to get out of a dress. There were angels, too, but the witches seemed always to have the upper hand.

One song, 'Gepetto', could easily have been a tale of the kindly carpenter who made Pinocchio, but it ended up dealing with decapitated dolls and what Donelly called the "psycho lives" of children. The first track on the album was called 'Someone To Die For'. The third single started promisingly, but moved swiftly on from young love to death, burial and the sanctity of the grave.

That song, 'Feed The Tree', also boasted a tune that could stun at 50 paces, and that was what was so startling about Star. Here were weird, gothic-horror fairy tales, as relayed via a set of killer tunes, a lyric voice and (it has to be said) a woman who looked too darned nice to be messing around with any of that witchy nonsense. Whatever. Death sells, the world bought and Star become a monster.

Belly

"Everyone is obsessed with death to a certain extent, but I'm definitely not as unhealthily concerned with it as I was a couple of years ago," says Donelly, many months and miles later. "I got superstitious to the point that it was debilitating my life. I saw signs that meant imminent death in everything. I had to check myself and pull back from that, because I was starting to make myself crazy. A lot of that darkness and death and fear did seep into Star. There's less of that in my personality now. Hopefully."

"I'm always interested in dichotomy and paradox; the kind of things that I listen to are the kind of things that trick you. That's really fascinating to me. Really morbid pop has always attracted me. Something that seems... sweeettt but ends up burning you."

When she says "sweet" she hisses the word and smacks her lips and sounds just like Kaa in The Jungle Book; and for no better encapsulation of Belly' s mastery of "sinister sweetness" look no further than the evil serpent's 'Trust In Me', a song that Belly made their own for the B-side of the 'Gepetto' remix that was released in March 1993.

Donelly once told an American interviewer: "My hands want to play pop songs and my head is attracted to despair." Is this her own version of Kristin's bi-polar disorder [Hersh has been diagnosed as suffering from this form of schizophrenia]?

"That's right!" she cries. "It's a kind of physical bi-polar disorder!"

And do you ever try to reconcile the two?

"Yeah. It's really strange, because I kind of have to let myself be almost autistic when I'm writing, because if I think too much about what I'm going for, it always ends up coming out shitty. I have to make myself incredibly stupid in order to get anything really worthwhile."

Huh? She laughs halfheartedly. "Stupid's the wrong word. Not present. As soon as I start to stick my fingers in it, it's like... finger-painting with your own shit! Which nobody is interested in hearing!" She shrieks, gleefully.

Whereas with Star other people's excrement provided the raw material, on King the shit is personal.

"It is more autobiographical," Donelly nods. "Whether that's fortunate or not, I don't know yet. King is definitely more streamlined in a lot of ways. It's hard for any band to be objective about how they're evolving. There were a couple of times that I was thinking it was maybe too similar to Star. But now that it's down and finished, I can listen to it as a piece; I can tell that it's much different."

King is, among other things, more pop. Donelly will admit that "there is a certain strange shame that comes with being accepted and being... palatable", and the pressure of her past in heroically cult outfits will never be totally relieved. Within months of its release, Star was approaching the total US sales of the entire Throwing Muses catalogue. Even with The Breeders' second, post-Donelly album Last Splash selling a million, even in the post-Nirvana soundscape where the alternative is the mainstream, Belly still wrestle with the notion that to be pop is to be less worthy; to be "palatable" is to be "disposable".

"Compared with Throwing Muses and The Breeders -- those two things that were part of my life -- it is so pop. And that gets magnified. I never had ambitions to sell in the pop market. It's just the music that comes out of me naturally. We'll be rehearsing and I'll go 'God this is excessively hooky!' but it's not something I'm gonna warp because I'm too hyper-aware of it. That's not honest. At the end of the day, I'm very happy with the music we make."

King was recorded in five-and-a-half weeks in the Bahamas last autumn. It was more island prison than tropical idyll, more Papillon than Bounty-country. "Part of the thinking behind the Bahamas was that we could be sequestered on our own and isolated," Donelly explains.

Veteran British producer Glynn Johns was at the controls, a rock'n'roll Forrest Gump who appears to have been in on every landmark moment in musical history over the past quarter of a century: The Beatles, The Stones, The Who and The Clash are among those who benefited from his production and engineering know-how.

Belly were impressed by Johns' lack of knowledge of the current alternative scene -- Donelly explains that the band wanted a more "timeless" approach, one unswayed by "conceptions of what other people are doing". Contemporary colours, though, were provided by engineer Jack Joseph Puig, last heard producing 'The Black Crowes' Amorica.

Johns visited Belly in Rhode Island, Providence last summer to hear the demos they'd been banging out in the practice room since spring. The lyrics were still all Donelly's work, but the music was now more of a group affair. Long months on the road had tightened up Belly and focused their songs. With this in mind, Johns suggested they record the album live, together, with no farting around.

And it shows. King has fewer of the dark crevices and crannies of Star, more of what Gail Greenwood calls "straight-ahead pop". When they are pushed, the band will variously describe Star as "tentative" (Tom), "spooky" (Tanya) and "understated" (Chris). "I want to say spooky, too," says Gail. So what, then, do they think of King?

    Tanya
Tom: "Honest."

Tanya: "Joyful."

Gail "Direct."

Chris: "Robust."

"It's a more essential album," the drummer adds. "We stripped all the fat out of everything. Playing it live, you developed a part that you could play all of, with two hands, in one take."

"It's pretty lean," chimes his brother.

"Belly are probably more capable of producing themselves than any other of the artists with whom I've worked," was Johns' opinion.

King cruises by with an addictive rush that borders on the illegal. It flashes back with nagging choruses that sound like déjà vu. It is thick with seemingly fluffy lines -- "When you breathe you breathe for two... send a rocket for Red... are their heartstrings connected to the wings on your back?" -- that gradually, gently betray hidden agendas and shades of meaning.

Tanya shrugs. "If you're gonna write something that sticks in somebody's head, you always have to be really careful about what that's gonna mean. If it is gonna be some-thing that runs through somebody's head, it had better be worth it."

'Now They'll Sleep', for example, the first single, appears on the surface to be a giddy love song, tipsy and flighty and thoroughly nice. But there is a deeper meaning.

"It's about obsessive love gone wrong," Tanya expounds. "Couples who have lost sight of each other, who are drugging themselves with whatever they can to avoid the fact that they can't see any more. Relinquishing your own identity but not having any concept of the other person's. It's just a kind of weird, grey outline of a relationship."

Then there are the album's two greatest pop moments, 'Red' and 'Super-Connected'. Both boast glorious, gravity-defying melodies. Yet one is about a neglected child dreaming of escape from her sad life, and the other about sad fucks in the music business who really do buy the myth of their own celebrity.

"It's just amazing to me that anyone at this stage in the history of rock'n'roll would buy into that crap. It's just a chimera, a mirage, and that seems so obvious to me and it just fascinates me when people don't get it," Tanya says. "It's not about me, it's not about our success..."

Success has left Belly in good shape. They're a better, tighter and closer band. The all-new, road-tested, collaborative approach has paid off handsomely in an album that is as intelligent as it is sexy and as sexy as it is poppy.

"Four heads are... stranger than one," reckons Tanya. "And better to listen to."


This summer, Belly are set to go on tour with REM on their European stadium dates. Donelly is confident that the crippling bouts of nerves-induced vomiting that she routinely suffered in the early days of Throwing Muses, and again during her first gigs with Belly, will be under control this time round.

And with two hit albums now under their belts, Tanya Donelly hopes that her gender and her image will figure less largely in the media portrayal of her band than they have in the past.

Bolstering this are two factors. On the one hand, early 1995 sees sheer weight of female artists or female-fronted bands -- whether it's PJ Harvey, Siouxsie Sioux, The Cranberries, Sheryl Crow, Bettie Serveert, Elastica, Sleeper, Echobelly or Belly -- dominating the airwaves and getting their dues. Hopefully we will be spared Sunday-supplement articles reporting Tanya's pivotal role in a "phenomenon" when it is really just (bio)logical.

On the other hand, Donelly well remembers the naivete and general affability on her part that resulted in her agreeing to do the oh-so-cute Gap ad and the oh-so-perverse photo-shoot for Spin magazine in America that had her togged out in, for some reason, little boys' underwear. Sex, inevitably, has also reared its ugly head on a number of occasions...

"I did a couple of interviews last time we did a record and, to be quite frank, I was very drunk when I did them, and those were the kind of things that came out! I was just being silly, and I kind of like to keep that aspect out of things."

So you're not the shag-monster that you have been painted?

"No. I'm a monogamous shag-monster!"

And "Rip me through my jeans" (the key line from 'Baby's Arm', B-side of 'Now They'll Sleep') is your motto, but only some of the time?

"Oh, that's lust! Definitely. I'm not without lust... it's there, it's just focused on a single person. That's a lust-love song. A loving lust song. A lustful love song!"

While we're on the subject, there's one word that is guaranteed to make Tanya see red. "Elfin!" she snorts, aware of the caricatured press portrait of herself. "I'm not interested in concentrating on my body at all. I know I say this and it's difficult to believe but I just don't think of myself as being... homunculus."

Bless you.

"Just a tinny, tiny, little person. I don't think of myself as being waifish or doll-like or even particularly small. To have that constantly brought up is really difficult sometimes. Yeah, I'm small, I'm feminine, SHUT UP!"

Don't, it is clear, mess with Tanya Donelly. Even when success has been a burden to her and the group, she is more than capable of dealing with it. She has had pubic hair sent to her in the post and a foot-long knife pulled from the mosh-pit in Portland, Oregon; she has attracted weirdos in Switzerland and New York. But even the guy who thought he was her "husband" didn't cause her too much of a problem.

"This guy thought I was his wife, and it was really difficult for him that his only communication with me was seeing me on TV; why was I exposing myself to all the other men in the world? And he sent a note back-stage in San Diego saying: 'Don't worry, everything is going to be OK, I'm gonna take care of you.' I wrote to him and said: 'Look, I have your address and I will pay to have somebody hurt you. Don't think I fucking won't.' He never wrote back to me. Anybody threatens me, I'll threaten right back. I'll have them hurt, I don't give a shit. I will go to jail."

Photo-editors, ad executives, indie snobs, rock/gender theorists and aspiring stalkers take note.


By:  Craig McLean
Pictures by:  Barry Marsden